I've just been experimenting with Fingerer, which is brilliant, and recreated a Pico version of the fingering I use...
I've just been experimenting with Fingerer, which is brilliant, and recreated a Pico version of the fingering I use on the Akai EWI. It's given me access to over three continuous chromatic octaves pretty quickly, so I'm quite pleased with that. (Here's a quick demo. I've added the fingering file under the EVI thread on the forum.)
Works fine with the clarinet, but when I tried editing the VST in the same way it didn't work at all. Would you expect it to ...? I'm new to this so I'm a bit confused how it's all set up...eg when using the clarinet I see stuff like breath compression in Stage, but the settings under the VST tab are completely different, and it's not there...?
http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/audio/PicoDemo.mp3
Works fine with the clarinet, but when I tried editing the VST in the same way it didn't work at all. Would you expect it to ...? I'm new to this so I'm a bit confused how it's all set up...eg when using the clarinet I see stuff like breath compression in Stage, but the settings under the VST tab are completely different, and it's not there...?
http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/audio/PicoDemo.mp3
Thats great fingering! later will have to give it a try.
ReplyDeleteThe clarinet sound is native to EigenD, (physical modelling) so it has specific parameters to it; just like the cello also.
Cheers...I like it, but then I'm used to it. On the other hand, the EWI is well thought out. It's going to be a lot easier than something like binary code because the patterns repeat in each octave, and it would be simple to add more octaves in the left hand. (The way the three fingers of the right hand interact with the half/whole steps in the left will take a bit of practice for someone who's never picked up a trumpet/EWI/EVI, but it translates well.)
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info on the parameters, I'll look some more at the VST side...
OK, so, the problem with using the VST in fingerer seems to be the scale. With the clarinet, it's chromatic, and it responds to the scale setting on the "Main" tab in Stage. But with the VST, it isn't, and it doesn't. (?)
ReplyDeleteHave the same problem with fingerer, think something is wrong with note-offs (which coincidentally works with Clarinet but not many VSTs). Only using the fingerer with Clarinet because of that.
ReplyDelete...I just managed to fix the issue I was having after a lot of random trial and error messing about in Workbench.
ReplyDeleteTo recap, I was finding that I could use new fingerings with the clarinet, but they went wrong with the VST. And this turned out to be because the clarinet was using an underlying chromatic scale, as selected in Stage, but the VST was apparently ignoring that setting and using some other major scale that threw everything out.
But...if you go into the Workbench for Fingerer, click "Open" on the entry for "audio unit rig 1", then open up "scaler 1" within that workspace, edit the entry for "scale input" and change it to:
[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12]
...it works. :-)
(That might not be the ideal solution, but at least it's a workaround. For reference, you can also edit the "plugin" parameter within "instrument audio unit 1" within that workspace to choose the VST. And you'll need to edit the "fingerer 1" entry within the main workspace to choose the fingering you want.)
So after messing about with that, I was able to do some more dodgy noodling with the EVI fingering over some random YouTube backing track, using Rob Papen's Blue 2. Sounded like this. ;-)
lemontiger.co.uk - www.lemontiger.co.uk/Audio/PicoJam2.mp3
That workaround is still a bit broken. It now seems to be OK when I play each note with separate breaths, but I get the wrong notes when they're played legato. So I'd appreciate any thoughts from someone with a better understanding of how Fingerer is supposed to work with VSTs.
ReplyDeleteHi Ben
ReplyDeleteThe Fingerer uses the breath input to start and stop notes, the action of the keys is used soley to determine the scale position that is then used by a Scaler to output a pitch. The reason that Fingerer works fine when you restart a note when using a VST but behaves weirdly with legato transitions is a MIDI limitation, which is pretty much embedded in the VST software interface itself. MIDI doesn't really have the idea of a continuous note that changes note number, the note number is implicitly part of the 'note on' event. There might be a way around that limitation, if anyone knows one I'd love to hear about it, but I am not aware of any at the moment. If there is a way to do it then it's the VST Agent that would have to implement it.
The reason the native instruments in EigenD work fine is they don't have that MIDI limitation of note number and 'note on' being tied together. If you simply stick to small pitch variations (acheivable by MIDI pitchbend signals) when going from the EigenD signal to MIDI in the VST you'll get away with it, but anything beyond that requires retriggering the MIDI note to have a new note number, so you need to tongue the note to get that to happen. You'll get all the envelope shenanigans that comes with a retriggered note inside your VST when you do that, but there's no way to avoid that unfortunately.
I hope that helps. I wrote the Fingerer, it's about the only bit of EigenD I did write myself and its great to see it being used and experimented with. Please do let us hear some more music with it, I enjoyed your little noodle you just posted, I'd love to hear some more.
John
Aha, OK! Thanks John...:-)
ReplyDeleteYou should be able to get around the note on limitations by setting a large pitchbend range eg 48 semis , if this is supported by your VST.
ReplyDelete( this is what is done with MPE.)
Hi Mark; I just came across this post on the forum where you talk about this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.eigenlabs.com/forum/threads/id/1288/
Sounds like they got it working. I'm confused though; if you set the pitchbend range on a VST and within the AU tab of Stage to 24, it just makes the keys crazy sensitive, and legato fingering still doesn't chase the notes. I find that some fingering changes bend up by the amount set in the VST's pitchbend range, some bend down by the same amount, and others do nothing. But, you reckon it's possible without coding...? :-) (You mention a "Modular Part 3" video but I haven't found that yet...)
...d'oh, I get it. "Pitchbend range lower" / "Pitchbend range upper" within "Instrument audio unit 1".
ReplyDeleteFab, it works nicely! Happy! Thanks for that.
Here's a quick demo of the new legatoness, which now lets you play trills and stuff. I also added the rest of the bottom eight keys to the fingering to give about eight octaves.
http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/audio/PicoDemoLegato.mp3
(Next challenge is to figure out how to map VST parameters to things like yaw with MIDI learn and some tinkering in Workbench. I don't know whether that would be any easier with the MIDI setup rather than the VST setup...)
...anyone know if you'd expect the standard sequence for changing key to work in the most recent experimental setup for Fingerer on the Pico...? The lights seem to change, but the key doesn't. (I realise that it'll be something to do with Tonic Talker, but haven't got far with programming yet.)
ReplyDelete