With the imminent demise of Google+ any thoughts on where we move this conversation, and whether there's a way to...
With the imminent demise of Google+ any thoughts on where we move this conversation, and whether there's a way to preserve an archive?
Good questions
ReplyDelete- archive I guess google will tell us.
- what options?
Eigenlabs forum? Lines? A.n.other?
Slack? Discord? The Eigenlabs forum could be an option, I'd just look at ways of being emailed when posts are made.
ReplyDeleteWhat does the Axoloti forum use?
Axoloti uses discourse.
ReplyDeleteYeah the issue with eigenlabs forum is not getting any updates.
Slack/discord good for discussions, but no/little search?!
Sorry to suggest this, but someone had to mention Facebook...
ReplyDeleteJohn Lambert thoughts?
ReplyDeleteIt’d be nice to move forum back to eigenlabs.
Would it be possible to get someone remote server access, so the community could install/moderate a discourse forum there?
Perhaps then the existing one (which is also getting spammed) could be archived.
Another option is getting a cloud host, for a discourse forum, low volume traffic, so cheap, perhaps funded by donations?
Once established again, could be linked to from eigenlabs.
I guess I’m saying try to find a way that also resolved the current split with eigenlabs forum, and gives it a future!?
For sure Facebook is an easy option.
ReplyDeletePersonally my dislike is things seem to get lost in your feed quite easily, I often don’t seen posts unless I check explicitly. but this may be partly as I just don’t use Facebook much.
But don’t have much experience with Facebook groups apart from that.
I think the groups are probably the best part of Facebook, and it's also probably a good way to pick up more eigenharp users (although I've just checked and there is an Eigenharp group with one user but it seems to be French).
ReplyDeleteDiscourse is superb if you have access to a server somewhere. It might also be possible to just use a forum on KvrAudio
ReplyDeleteAutchhh. Not good news; Yeah I say Discourse to the four winds. Axoloti, GigPerformer, Lines... Although for a small group of users FB groups works quiet nicely; example Haken Continuum.
ReplyDeleteDiscourse sounds nice, yes. For such a small group I guess we don't need some heuristics that tell us which posting is interesting and "hot" and whatever. Just plain old sort-by-date, perhaps with a dose of mark-unread and subscribe-to-thread and a good (forum local) search function sounds good to me.
ReplyDeleteDiscourse looks like a nice piece of software. The current Eigenlabs forums do work but are seriously showing their age and I don't think they're a terribly good idea for the future. There is a search function (which uses Solar so is actually quite powerful, but Solar is he most gpdawful think to get working and tinker with) and also a usable email notifcation system but the code for the forum was written in house and is based on what is now a very old version of Django, it's probably quite a lot of work to bring it up to date and it is doubtful if it is really worth it. The current Eigenlabs forums are also suffering an onslaught of spam, I have to delete several bogus posts a day at the moment, which is time consuming and annoying. The current software is not terribly immune from this kind of thing, it requires manual intervention to do almost everything, which is tedious. I am sure Discourse is smarter about this kind of thing.
ReplyDeleteI am happy to host a Discourse install on Eigenlabs infrastructure (AWS instances) for a community forum if there is interest in this. It'll have to be set up and run by someone I know and trust (Mark or Duncan perhaps, or Fedinand, you know who you are out there) as I'll have to give them admimistrator access but I don't think that is a problem. Once it's running then I'm sure Discourse has appropriate roles defined that don't need access beyomg the web interface so adminstration and moderation can be broader if needed.
I am personally not keen on anything Facebook, I am not a member and am extremely unlikely to ever be so, not to mention that going from one giant company which is abandoning what used to be a core product to another giant company who may not even be around in a few years doesn't seem like the height of good sense to me even if it is very convenient.
Let me know what you all think, and if I can be of any use in this.
For what it's worth, I recently set up a Discourse forum for our Gig Performer community (https://community.gigperformer.com). I had it on a private machine for a while but it's now running on a Linode virtual machine.
ReplyDeleteOnly caveat --- make sure you REALLY follow their instructions and I strongly recommend you use a recent Ubuntu distro. Discourse runs on Ruby inside a docker container and if you don't do it their way, you'll have quite a few headaches, as I discovered when I first tried to get it working on a CentOS machine.
I gotta say, once I got past all the initial headaches, it really is a very nice system.
Discourse on the Eigenlabs infrastructure sounds good to me. I would also not be keen on a FB group. I’m not sure what the setup entails so not sure I can commit to that right now, without further research. But I am willing to help moderate and manage the spam on an ongoing basis.
ReplyDeleteI was going to say that my vote was for a Facebook group but it is really important to have John Lambert involved in our conversations.
ReplyDeleteHow long do we have?
ReplyDeleteWould also help out with moderation if considered helpful.
ReplyDeleteCould also imagine to assist as "helper-admin" but probably it would be better if the initial setup and particularly hardening, backup strategy etc. is planned and coordinated by someone who has more experience in that area.
Richard Watson As far as I read 10 month from now - so not imminent but already visible on the horizon.
I help moderate on a discourse forum, but not set it up... and the axoloti forum is hosted on digital ocean which is 'just a matter' of adding the droplet.
ReplyDelete*Ive no experience with AWS.*
but...
I did a quick search last night on discourse on AWS, and it appears the discourse install on Amazon marketplace (bitnami) is a bit of a pain, when you later start doing updates.
There are some walkthroughs for doing a manual install on AWS, which are pretty detailed, but also seem reasonably involved...
e.g. stroupaloop.com - Discourse setup using AWS | andrew stroup's Blog
Id guess its 'doable' a few of us here have solid Linux experience.
BUT... ive no experience of AWS, so I'm not sure how this would work in relation to keeping the existing forum for 'archive' purposes (which I think is important).
my fear would be one AWS instance = one Linux install, so upgrading/changing that for the discourse forum might break the existing forum (and anything else running on that instance e.g. mail servers?)
also depending upon 'tier' of AWS, the instance may or may not have enough resources to run discourse alongside existing stuff.
(again I repeat Ive no experience of using AWS, so the above may or may not be an issue!)
I admin AWS in my work life so more than happy to get involved.
ReplyDeleteI've never tried a discourse instance, but I'll have a read later.
Do not go the bitnami route - I tried that first -- it doesn't support the "one button update" that Discourse uses. Also, Discourse requires port 80 to be available so that the LetsEncrypt certification can work. That certificate gets updated automatically every few months and if you don't leave the port open, you end up blocking mobile Safari and other similar clients when the certificate expires.
ReplyDeletePerhaps consider a linode - it's really inexpensive. That's where I ended up installing our Discourse.
I was about to suggest linode but I think John has offered space on Amazon
ReplyDeleteLatest update: "We will sunset all Google+ APIs in the next 90 days. Developers can expect to hear more from us on this topic in the coming days, and can stay informed by continuing to check the Google+ developer page.
ReplyDeleteWe have also decided to accelerate sunsetting consumer Google+, bringing it forward from August 2019 to April 2019. "
blog.google - Expediting changes to Google+
Still some time - but less now.
Wow pretty aggressive timing.
ReplyDeleteoooops, now that is moving faster.
ReplyDeleteTime is marching on, if D-Day is April 2019 !
ReplyDeleteI think we need to decide on a plan thats quick/easy to implement.
my current thinking is a dedicated forum is perhaps overkill for current traffic... it also 'competes' with the Eigenlabs one... which it seems we don't have time to move to something like discourse at the moment. (let alone moving archived posts)
perhaps Discord is a compromise?
its easy to setup, somewhere to build a community... and its chat/informal nature might be quite 'refreshing'.
(and has all modern bells /whistles )
we could also broaden it and try to build a discord community around all expressive controllers, this seems natural way to create more discussion/interest, as many of us also have multiple of these controllers, or have, or will have them in the future - and we share quite a lot in common e.g. software/hardware that support it.
name? "Expressive Controller", "Expressive Electronica"
(any other suggestions)
thoughts?
Yepp, discord isn't bad, some 3d engine for Blender is also using that. It's more organized in channels than on-the-fly topics though. But if we create a number of matching premade topics it should work. And for forum/thread style communication the official Eigenlabs forum is also still there.
ReplyDeleteMight perhaps not be the worst, to give the official forum a "role" again in the community discussions. Then more people would actively use these forums again, making a better impression for people new to the instrument. Honestly rarely visited these forums in the last month myself.
So Discord and the Eigenharp forums might complement each other better than let's say Eigenharp forums and Disourse.
Having an "interdisciplinary" more chat oriented forum also sounds like a good idea! "Controller" might perhaps be a little technical? Would throw "Expressive Electronica Fan Forum" into the ring :P
1+ Discord; "Expressive Electronic instruments"??
ReplyDeleteCan’t seem to find time to even play music in the last few weeks so a low effort solution that’s not FB seems like a reasonable solution. A broad expressive controller community seems like a desirable thing.
ReplyDelete5d Musicians , 5d Music Makers , Musicians of the fifth dimension :)
ReplyDelete(Hmm was trying to shorten the name)
Music without Envelopes :)
ReplyDelete(Trying to think of ways these instruments have been described)
Hmm, not found any more phrases in the marketing...
ReplyDeleteI think António Machado is simplest and to the point.
“expressive electronic instruments”
It’s also how eigenlabs describe eigenharps so nice touch :)
I like "Musicians of the 5th dimension" but maybe I'm alone. "We are the Envelope" came up on the first ContinuuCon..."We are the ADSR" naaaaa. "Expressive Potential"
ReplyDelete"Muinomiexatofiti" sounds catchy - most probably not already taken :)
ReplyDelete(music in our minds, expression at our fingertips)